As far as the known rod bearing failure, let me explain; inside your engine the rod-bearing to rod-journal clearance is a critical engineering measure. However, labor can be anywhere from 4-6 hours so repair costs can add up at shops. The mighty BMW S85 motor's Achilles Heel is rod bearings wearing prematurely and failing. BMW M5 & M6 (S85) before damage or failure will be £2,400 . My Profile My Preferences My Mates. !Also follow me on Instagram @ S4vageperformance Thanks to BMRLVR for posting the B&W version of the Clevite bearing failure guide. Rod bearings that have been severely worn may have damaged the crankshaft (requiring replacement or machining). Rod Bearing Issue. The BMW factory measurements were approximately half those of standard values. After 24,000 miles, the engine was disassembled in July 2010 to rebuild as a low comperssion 4.7L motor. The rod bearings on the S85 engines don’t seem to last anywhere near as long as they do on the standard 5 or 6 series engines. Unfortunately cost on Genuine BMW bearings went up considerably and BE bearings became the lowest cost solution for doing rod bearing replacements and achieving industry accepted rod bearing clearance. S85 rod bearing replacement. They are one time use and must be replaced when doing a rod bearing replacement. S65, 90000 Miles, Supercharged, 2008 More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 06-ModerateDescription: Owner opted for rod bearing replacement at 90000 Miles during Supercharger Upgrade. If you run high horsepower and high RPM, then you need extra bearing clearance, not less of it. If you run high horsepower and high RPM, then you need extra bearing clearance, not less of it. (Most notably, the VANOS system’s cam adjusters and solenoids will fail as a result and they are very expensive to replace!). They measured as little as 0.0011 inch rod bearing clearance, which Van Dyne said would lead to oil starvation and potentially catastrophic engine failure. Van Dyne confirmed the measurements all matched, and the factory BMW clearance was dangerously too small. A Well known issue with the S65/S85 is rod bearings wearing prematurely. The guy only wants $800 for the car. 1000 Miles later, oil line burst and motor suffered severe, but non-fatal damage. Crankshaft connecting rod journal:  2.20465 [-0.00010, +0.00030] inch. Whatever the reason, rod bearings are wearing out sooner than expected and their replacement should be considered a required preventative maintenance item. More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 04-ModerateDescription: Supercharged Stroker motor with built internals. This quote comes directly from a Mahle-Clevite white paper on bearing clearance, then I’ll summarize at the end. When this problem first came to light, many people begin replacing their rod bearings. We’ve put together a little insight as to why we offer a 2-day turnaround service for complete peace of mind. Buy ACL Race Rod Bearings Compatible with S85B50 (5.0L) M5 E60 w/.001" Oil Clearance: Automotive - Amazon.com FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases Price each: $1351.61. Each of these key difference contribute to the overall stiffness in the connecting rod bore holding the bearing and may affect the observed bearing wear in the following photos. Return your core and receive a $400 refund to bring the cost down to $1,400. There are also valve stem seal issues and timing chain issues afflicting engines from 2010 through 2018 which are are discussed elsewhere in our technical articles. 171 … Description: Owner opted for rod bearing replacement at 90000 Miles during Supercharger Upgrade. Their higher operating speeds result in considerably higher oil temperatures and an accompanying loss in oil viscosity due to fluid film friction that increases with shaft speed. It’s possible only a few bearings are worn, but it’s recommended to replace all of them while you’re in there. They are different designs from stock, have different mass and moments of inertia, possibly different materials, different manufacturing process, different tolerances, and different fasteners. If you have coated parting lines you must remove the coating in this area before using these bearings. This is evident specifically with the BMW rod bearing issue which is most prevalent in BMW 6-cylinder, 8-cylinder and 10-cylinder engine designs produced between the years 2000 and 2013. Can anyone give me the real cost of labor to replace the rod bearings. I hope these photos have been helpful to see with your own eyes what this problem looks like, and why it’s happening. … More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 06-Medium/Heavy, S65, 40000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2008. The parts are supposed to match the specification, but manufacturing variances will lead to these tolerance differences. S65, 47000 Miles, Naturally Aspirated, 1.8k Miles Supercharged, 2008 Replace them with this simple kit. SALE. On your high-performance BMW engine, it is a tighter design than typically recommend by specialty engine builders. BMW designed the S65 and S85 with approximately half the industry standard oil clearance. BMW M3 (S65) before engine damage or failure will be £2,200. Reply to this topic; Start new topic; Prev; 1; 2; Next ; Page 1 of 2 . To access the bearings, the oil pan need to be removed from the vehicle and to do that, the subframe and front suspension needs to be moved out of the way. The guy only wants $800 for the car. ACL Rod Bearings - BMW E60 E63 M5 M6 - S85. Login Register. The WPC treatment will prolong bearing life and reduce friction, however, bearings are still a wear item. aja540i 1341 aja540i 1341 5th Gear; Members; 1341 1613 posts; Gender: Male; Name: Andrew; Location: Auckland; Car: 2007 e61 M5; Car 2: 2014 Leaf 24G; Car … It looks like the color version has better pictures, but the B&W version might have some better illustrations and explanations. results in premature wear. Join Date: Apr 2011 . Van Dyne Engineering in Huntington Beach called to explain that the engine couldn’t be reassembled because the bearing clearance was too small. We know what to listen for. But when they do it, like in the Toyota Prius, the auto manufacturer also specifies a very thin oil to match the very small oil clearance. We remove the subframe, then the oil pan. Hi folks, Have been reading through the treasure trove of information across m5board on E60/E63 M5/M6s and it's been so helpful as I've been researching a vehicle purchase. S65, 24000 Miles, Naturally Aspirated, 2009. There are 20 bolts in this kit for the S85 engine. Or worse, a total engine replacement, which can reach as high as $10,000 or more. rod bearings alone cost about $5-10 a pair (the bearing is 2 halves, 4 bearings per engine) If you want to be cheap and lazy, and dig yourself a hole you will have to fall into soon... just drop the oil pan, pull the rod lower caps, discard old bearings, install new, bolt her back up... drive 1-2 thousand miles before catostrophic engine failure. As time went on, more and more blown motors showed up, again NA motors with low miles. Schedule a Visit Today or give us a call and talk with one of our friendly BMW Service & Repair experts today. We are offering 15% off our tried and tested S54 Rod Bearing Replacement Kit through next Wednesday, February 3rd. BMW S85 Comprehensive Rod Bearing Replacement Kit - 11247841703KT2 M5, M6 Includes Genuine factory replacement rod bearings, ideal for a basic service for a road driven car Save for later Available In Stock. Discussion Starter • #1 • 2 mo ago. By November 2011, the machining had been completed, and the engine was ready for reassembly. It seemed if you made it past 25,000 miles, then your motor would likely survive the warranty period.Various theories were discussed to explain this phenomena. When two parts are at the opposite of their tolerance limits, it can lead to catastophic failure as I will show. These bearings are manufactured using common rod bearing materials instead of the harder metals of the latest factory BMW bearing shells. As we briefly touched on above – rod bearing replacement isn’t cheap. BMW has long suffered a bad reputation for engine bearing failure and premature wear in their Motorsports line of M3 and M5 engines (S54, S65, S85). The rod bearings are responsible for keeping the rod end safe from the pounding it takes as 50-100 horsepower beats down on it from above. To see some numbers in real life, please see the following examples. There could be a number of reasons for premature failure with a lot of finger-pointing as to the real cause. Add to basket. The rod bearing replacement procedure includes fully draining and replacing the engine oil and filter, power steering fluid, and coolant. Using the color bearing failure guide, see example #12 “Oil Starvation / Marginal Oil Film Thickness.” The two pictures below come from this example. So here’s both versions for reference.B&W: http://www.wilmink.nl/Clevite/Clevite_lagerschade_tech_info.pdfColor: http://catalog.mahleclevite.com/bearingUsing the color bearing failure guide, see example #12 “Oil Starvation / Marginal Oil Film Thickness.” The two pictures below come from this example. So let’s look at what happens when we put all of the parts together at their maximum stack up (for minimum oil clearance). Each of these specifications and tolerances were either specified by BMW, or measured in the field using multiple example components to build a database of component tolerance. BMW E60 M5 Connecting Rod Bearing Replacement DIY Guide. Prev. What is the Make and Model of your Vehicle? If you run high horsepower and high RPM, then you need extra bearing clearance, not less of it. That means the connecting rod bearing thickness can vary between 0.07835 – 0.07865 inch. We recommend the bearing replacement at 60k miles. The bearings were photographed and stashed away. I have been scrubbing the boards trying to find out what the cost of replacing the rod bearings. S65, 24000 Miles, Naturally Aspirated, 2009 More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 06-Med-HeavyDescription: No other details given.S65, 24000 Miles, Supercharged, Built Internals, 2008. About to have mine done, so have been getting quotes from local shops. The extra protection is true if you kept all things the same including the bearing clearance; but reducing the bearing clearance by 16-40% to get the extra protection of the coating is not recommended. Nominal size would be 2.2049 inch. When we put all nominal parts together, here’s how they stack up: That’s already dangerously too small and almost half the Clevite recommended clearance. All manufacturer warranties are maintained. The rod bearings in your E46 M3, E90 / E92 / E93 M3, E60 M5 and E63 / E64 M6 models are wearing out much faster than expected causing major, costly and premature failure of other expensive components as well! All of our technicians are fully trained and very experienced in all aspects of road/performance and race technology. The coated bearings are great, but you have to size your journals for them; or you must custom make the bearings designed for the coating. This is a trendy move among some auto manufacturers to increase gas mileage and increase horsepower. 22000 miles NA, 2000 mile supercharged. BMW E60 M5 Connecting Rod Bearing Replacement DIY Guide. They measured as little as 0.0011 inch rod bearing clearance, which Van Dyne said would lead to oil starvation and potentially catastrophic engine failure. M5 V10 (S85) 2005-2010 E60 – 4 Door Saloon. The result? Van Dyne Engineering in Huntington Beach called to explain that the engine couldn’t be reassembled because the bearing clearance was too small. The industry standard clearance Van Dyne was talking about can be found in numerous automotive engineering books, best practices, trade journals, and web articles. Engines with clearance too small, couple with oil too thick, leads to premature rod-bearing related engine failures. So, how much are engine rod repair costs? They’re basic gaskets and only cost about $25 each. What Service Or Repair Can We Quote For You? Most rod bearing issues seem to pop up in the 60,000-100,000 mile ballpark. Whatever the reason, rod bearings are wearing out sooner than expected and their replacement should be considered a required preventative maintenance item. A four wheel alignment is also included. Edit: An excellent discussion on M3Post about the S65/S85 Rod Bearings and their measurements. If you run high horsepower and high RPM, then you need extra bearing clearance, not less of it. !Also follow me on Instagram @ S4vageperformance Improper warming, poor oil selection, etc. If you stop in for a visit to Group 2 Motorsports we can explain it all in more detail, provide some good visual examples of the failed rod bearings and other parts and do a quick assessment of your engine’s condition. Mahle-Clevite recommends adding an extra 0.0005 for good measure for high horsepower, high RPM, and coated bearing applications. There are tons of horror stories available on the web documenting this issue, but there is also a metric tonne of misinformation out there. Thanks to BMRLVR for posting the B&W version of the Clevite bearing failure guide. Since the labor is straightforward to replace the rod bearings on this V10 we have begun offering this service for our customers. Factory clearance with TriArmor coated bearigns: 0.00075 – 0.00095 (24-40% smaller). The coated bearings are great, but you have to size your journals for them; or you must custom make the bearings designed for the coating. How much does it cost to replace a wheel bearing? S65, 106000 Miles (92k) Naturally Aspirated, 14000 Miles Supercharged, 2008. …High Performance engines on the other hand, typically employ greater bearing clearances for a number of reasons. His motor blew and it cost a lot of money to replace it. Rod bearing replacement is a fairly involved procedure. Address: A Reeve, Hardwick Commercial Park, Oldmedow Road, King's Lynn, Norfolk, PE30 4JJ. We use rod bearings made out of a softer metal than the crankshaft or the rod so that it breaks down first. Core charges are assigned to parts that have reusable components by manufacturers to encourage the return of the used units. S65, 30000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2008. The first few pictures come straight from Mahle-Clevite. Description: Auto Talent estimates this engine had less than one week to live with the bearings found in this condition. In time, this will damage your engine past the point of repair and you have to replace the entire engine! I found the color version of the same thing. Does anyone know what Tesla is charging for drive unit replacements when paid out of pocket? Oil filter replacement. More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 08-Near CatastrophicDescription: Part of the EAS Ongoing Rod Bearing Journal Thread. The theories ranged from inferior oil pump design to bearing clearance issues. S65, 31000 Miles, Naturally Aspirated, 2008. BE Bearings Rod Bearings - BMW E60 M5 (S85) SP1527HK-STD-S85 Applicable for BMW engines S85B50 Standard clearance (+0.001's also available) Sold as complete set (10-cylinders) Designed and manufactured by Clevite to BE Bearing specifications. Tuning by a local, unknown tuner was another reason to ignore this blown motor.But about the same time, the first few blown motors showed up on bone stock M3’s as well. We then grind the crankshaft back to its original dimensions. Connecting rod bearing:  0.07850 [-.00015, +0.00015] inch. Today these photos might be ground-zero, exhibit-one in the discussion of rod bearing clearance. Increased clearance provides less sensitivity to shaft, block, and connecting rod deflections and the resulting misalignments that result from the higher levels of loading in these engines. Some amount of the coating will be removed during break-in and operation, resulting in a slight increase in clearance. The film sheer strength of 60 weight oil is times x bigger than that of 40 - pretty important for rod bearings at 8250rpm. The bearings shown above came from a supercharged stroker motor. ARP Rod bolts . Unfortunately cost on Genuine BMW bearings went up considerably and BE bearings became the lowest cost solution for doing rod bearing replacements and achieving industry accepted rod bearing clearance. The theories ranged from inferior oil pump design to bearing clearance issues. The rod bearings on the S85 engines don’t seem to last anywhere near as long as they do on the standard 5 or 6 series engines. … Genuine sump plate gasket. The WPC treatment will prolong bearing life and reduce friction, however, bearings are still a wear item. Here is my take on rod bearings. In 2018 ACL began to make rod bearings for the S65 and S85 in two varieties, a STD size and an HX (.001) oversize. Factory clearance with Calico coated bearings: 0.00085 – 0.00105 (16-32% smaller). Rod Bearing Replacement Service. An S65/S85 engine with only 0.00060 inch clearance is less than one-quarter the Clevite recommended clearance. The bearings were photographed and stashed away. According to Mahle-Clevite, the number-one cause of failure of this type is too little oil clearance.S65, 4000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2009.S65, 4000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2009. Description: Owner opted for rod bearing replacement at 72000 Miles during Supercharger Upgrade. S65, 106000 Miles (92k) Naturally Aspirated, 14000 Miles Supercharged, 2008. Pay 0% APR for 6 Months. Recommended parts replacement list with part numbers: Part numbers listed are correct to the best of our knowledge at the time these instructions were written, we include them as a courtesy and we take no responsibility for their accuracy! Van Dyne proposed a solution to send the crankshaft out for machining to have the journals resized to allow proper clearance. Time to add some pictures to the discussion to see what a bearing looks like due to lack of clearance. We recommend the bearing replacement at 60k miles. More PhotosFactory Bearings: 088/089Category: 03-MildDescription: When this engine opened to build stroker, main bearing failure was imminent. In addition to analyzing the severity of the rod bearing wear, the crankshaft must also be inspected closely for damage. It seems that at some point BMW changed the metal materials in the S85 10 rod bearings to a harder mix of tin-aluminum. The crankshaft is then heat treated and micro polished. S65, 33000 Miles (30k) Naturally Aspirated, 3000 Miles Supercharged, 2008. Their higher operating speeds result in considerably higher oil temperatures and an accompanying loss in oil viscosity due to fluid film friction that increases with shaft speed. Appreciate 0 Tweet. 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